Eager to be Healthy – Mastering Conversation and Connection with Wayne Elise

Wayne Elise: I’m Wayne Elise and I’m Eager to be Healthy. You’re listening to the Eager to be Healthy podcast with Michael Scott Eager. Learn how to be happy while being healthy and living life to the fullest. ⁓

Michael Scott Eger: Today’s guest might be a little controversial because of he is Neil Strauss’s book, The Rules of the Game. He was featured as a personality named Juggler. And I believe that we are greater than the sum of our parts. And I’ve learned a lot from this man. And I understand that he has grown too. More importantly, What he teaches us, it’s just how to connect with other people. And that’s important. He’s done a lot for his health. And we talk about how going into a more healthier marriage has transformed its life. Please enjoy this interview with my friend, Wayne Elise. On this recording, we have my friend Wayne Elise. He’s on a call from, where are you now, LA?

Wayne Elise: I’m in Los Angeles.

Michael Scott Eger: Excellent. It’s good to hear your voice again. It’s been some time.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, it has too long, Mike.

Michael Scott Eger: Yeah, so since it’s a health and happiness show and I know you’ve done a lot to keep yourself healthy healthy and happy over the years some some better than others, but Would you like to tell us a little bit about what you tried and what has worked?

Wayne Elise: Uh, well, what do you mean? Do you mean like being, uh, physically healthy or do you mean emotionally healthy?

Michael Scott Eger: actually the one in the same. If you’re unhappy, you self-medicate with food and drink. If you’re happy, it’s easier for you to visualize yourself as a healthy person.

Wayne Elise: You know, I self-medicate sometimes. I think we all do. You know, think my belief is moderation is best. I believe in moderate amount of exercise. I don’t believe in anything too radical. You know, I work out every day. I try to eat well. You one of the best things I’ve had in my life is marrying my wife, Erica, because she’s such a good cook. And I think… If there’s one thing that’s made me a healthier person, it’s being with somebody who can cook. know, making meals at home is so much better than eating out, which I used to do. You know, I still live on the road. So travel most of the year and I would just be eating in McDonald’s and eating restaurants. And I remember, you know me, Mike, after my divorce. Just after my divorce, my first wife, I was 225 pounds. You know, now about 175. I had very unhealthy lifestyle. And now I just try to be balanced in all things. You know, I’m not too crazy about any particular thing. You know, I don’t follow a stringent diet, but I try to eat lots of vegetables and ⁓ try to work out every day. At least go on a hike. I live in Los Angeles by the hill, so I can hike and I enjoy hiking quite a bit. My wife teaches Pilates, so she’s already in the exercise business, so we get plenty of that.

Michael Scott Eger: Excellent. Over the years I’ve known you, I know there’s a huge improvement in your personal and professional life. And the reason I first met you, you’re very good communicating. Sometimes we try to be humble. You are a very good communicator. I reached out to you to help me speak better. So, the way you described it, was your life started as a street performer. Is that true?

Wayne Elise: Yeah, I started as a street performer in diapers doing doing shows for other kids in the nursery. Yeah, I know I My work life. Yeah kind of revolves around Performing I was a juggler before I was a juggler I did have a regular job when I was very young I say I was like 18 19 and I remember getting fired from my job because I wasn’t very good at it and I said to my dad said to me What are you gonna do now Wayne? I said, you know I’m going to follow my dream. I’m going to become a juggler.” And he shook his head. He didn’t think that was a very good idea. He’s like, yeah, well, but what are you going to for money? I’m like, yeah, I’m going to do that for money. But I follow my passion. And that’s always kind of served me, following the things I enjoy doing. And I really enjoyed being a juggler. I enjoyed street performing for many years. I had paid gigs as well, but the street performing, that’s a very enjoyable job for me. people do it it becomes almost an addiction because it’s a it’s just the most fun way you can possibly make money. So I did that for many years and then I started teaching guys how to meet girls ⁓ and then the dad for a while ⁓ was in that book the game which I know that’s you know for for your listeners some people

Michael Scott Eger: Yeah, you wrote a whole chapter there.

Wayne Elise: I a chapter, if you read the book, a lot of it’s kind of sketchy, but ⁓ sketchy pick up art.

Michael Scott Eger: but except the part about you know my

Wayne Elise: My chapter, think, is pretty, pretty, pretty above board. I’m not a sketchy person. would say most people would say that. ⁓ Maybe someone who knows, but you know, I try to be an honest, good person. And that was my point in the chapter was being, you know, finding your real self and helping other people find their real self. That’s really the secret of conversation. Secret of people is letting people be themselves, helping them be themselves. I think all that ties into health as well, you know, because a lot of times people get depressed. they’re unhappy because they’re not social. I think people are meant to be social beings. even the inverted, introverted of us, we still want to go out and have communication and have friends and have a feeling as if we’re part of something. I just think that that’s a big component. mean, there’ve been studies on this that people who have friends live longer and they’re usually healthier. So, know, conversation, teaching conversation to me, what I ended up doing now is teach conversation skills, storytelling skills to a degree. You know, I think that’s really tied into emotional health. It’s tied into a person’s wellbeing because the feeling is that, hey, I can go out and make friends. I can go out and meet a girl if I’m a guy and vice-purpose if I’m a girl. And having some ability to connect with strangers and other people that you don’t know yet. Well, that gives you feeling as if you know, not only you’re part of something, so you have more friends, but the feeling is if you don’t, you’re not clinging to those friends and those people in your life as well, because you can go out and meet other people as well. And I think, I think that’s good because, know, nobody wants to be clung to. So that’s a really long answer to your question, Mike. I don’t know, you probably intended a shorter answer.

Michael Scott Eger: beauty is we control the format so it can be as long or as short as we like.

Wayne Elise: That is true. And you know, best, I forgot the best part of my career was meeting Mike, meeting you. That was the highlight. That’s been the top.

Michael Scott Eger: While I know you’re saying that for the show, I still take that as a compliment because it is true.

Wayne Elise: It is totally true. I know I when I met you I said to myself, you know, this is a this is a sweet guy I like You know, and that’s something you know, you might say that you’ve changed or you’ve evolved maybe you have but you know that essence of being a good person I think is something that that you’ve always always had, you know, it’s probably in your DNA I think you know to me to know Mike is that’s lot

Michael Scott Eger: And finally I guess I said love before I have on my show.

Wayne Elise: Those who

Michael Scott Eger: Great gratitude and love. Thank you for coming on my show.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, you’re welcome. Kimmy, you’re a good host, man. I love listening to your show. I’ve listened to a few of your podcasts already.

Michael Scott Eger: coming from you that’s a huge compliment because I know you travel around the world and you deal with you deal with a lot of very professional people we’re not going to talk about your clients because that’s private but the point is I know who you deal with and the fact is we’re having conversation and it just shows that when you’re really trying to connect with someone and you’re really trying to have a human connection It doesn’t matter status, doesn’t matter wealth, the human connection is so rare, you cherish it, you have it.

Wayne Elise: That is true. Yeah, I totally agree. know, and that’s, that’s one of the great things I do love about the job is because I can, you know, I meet lots of people, all different walks of life, you know, we’ll have the conversation camp and you’ll be there and there’ll be, you know, a, um, so many different people. It’ll be a Jewish doctor from Toronto and then there’ll be a, you know, the Asian kid, the movie making Asian kid there. There’s such a diverse. background people and all these people for most part are very accomplished in their own right, you know, probably because I charge enough you have to be and it’s just personal is very accomplished people but in a personal life in an area of their life that they’re trying to improve is a real privilege, you know, they are willing to trust me and trust the other people in the room to reveal vulnerability. It makes me feel more in touch with people. It makes me feel as if It’s true, we don’t all have to be perfect. And we all struggle sometimes. Even people you might see like this guy’s CEO of a company is very accomplished. Everybody struggles. And that’s something that I’ve learned from my job is that, you we all have struggles, myself included. And we’re not alone in those.

Michael Scott Eger: I’m trying to think if I want to highlight on the fact that the imperfections of communication make us more human or I want to talk more about cooking with your wife. Both of them are some really good arcs. You know, one of the things I really liked about ⁓ meeting you is there’s a lot of people that try to teach you how to behave and a lot of those behaviors are not you.

Wayne Elise: They are.

Michael Scott Eger: And what we really need to know is be sensitive enough to perceive or detect what the other person is thinking about and speak in a way that is interesting but genuine to us.

Wayne Elise: No, you’re not. Yeah, go ahead.

Michael Scott Eger: That framework was very comforting to me because I then had the opportunity to let my geeky weirdness out again and stop trying to behave like I should have. gave me people like you and there were other mentors beside you but you were the first. Gave me the freedom to love the weird. Embrace the strange. basically be myself again. ⁓

Wayne Elise: Embrace strange. We should put that on a t-shirt. That should be a slogan, embrace the strange.

Michael Scott Eger: We could. ⁓ I’m not sure how many people would be comfortable enough to buy that and they might think it’s something sexual But since we have a clean show here, we’re going to be talking about love feeling conversation and nutrition

Wayne Elise: Just to get back to that thought, I think what I try to teach guys, people, shouldn’t say guys, because I do a female client as well, but I try to teach people not really to be themselves. I don’t teach people to be themselves. I teach people to help other people to be themselves. The people who come to me and they’ll say, how do I show confidence? How do I become a confident person?

Michael Scott Eger: Hmm. Interesting clarification.

Wayne Elise: I tell them that that’s not a good goal. Their goal is to help other people be more confident. Help the people you’re in conversation with. Be more confident. Help them. Help the other people talk about the things they want to talk about. Help them in conversation. You know, you go to a party, it’s easy to sit there and think, well, I’m standing here by myself. I wish people would talk to me. Be the person goes out instead of… thinking you gotta get into some group right away, why not go help somebody else who is in the same predicament? You know, if we get outside of ourselves and try to help other people, we kind of then forget about ourselves. And that’s the best way, ironically, to be ourselves, is to just kind of forget about what we’re doing. It’s almost like being unconscious. Instead of worrying about, am I standing the right way, am I saying the right things? None of that really matters, you know? You’re gonna be your best self when you just don’t think about it. You know, so I just try to change people’s goals a bit, change their perspective.

Michael Scott Eger: So I guess that leads to the most interesting subject in the world, right?

Wayne Elise: which is that dress that was either gold and white.

Michael Scott Eger: No, no, no, no, no, that’s like the most interesting conversation to second. Okay? And by the time this goes up on air and online, people are like, what are they talking about? The color changing dress. I think you mentioned that the most interesting subject for someone is themselves, right?

Wayne Elise: Well, it’s themselves or things are interesting, let’s say. Sure, yeah, I think that’s true.

Michael Scott Eger: So how can we leverage that?

Wayne Elise: How can we conversations and help people talk about themselves? Is that what you mean? Yeah, well, you know, that’s a good question. like a lot of people make the mistakes of asking too many questions. You know, they try to force conversation with personal questions. And there’s a pacing, you know, people have to feel comfortable revealing themselves. They love talking about themselves. They’ll talk about things they’re interested in. But we also have to understand that there ⁓ is a pacing that’s involved there. There’s a pacing and helping people talk about themselves, you know, and you can’t, if you come in with a lot of questions and not give much of your own perspective, you put the vulnerability on the other person. In conversation, if you really want to open somebody up, you got to do it in a way that it doesn’t make them feel vulnerable, or at least you lead in the vulnerability. You also show that you’re a vulnerable person. Instead of just coming in with blank questions, like, tell me about yourself. you know, telling people why you care, why you’re interested, prefacing your questions with explanations, why you’re interested in that topic helps a lot. But also it’s just, there’s so many little things that you do to make people feel more comfortable. You know, that’s why I teach a whole class, the conversation camp on it. So many little things, but, ⁓ you know, it’s, really, it’s in chewing the other person, listening with your eyes and seeing, you know, are they interested or they not interested? they? want to keep the conversation going. If you’re talking about something, you see somebody’s not interested, you probably want to stop talking about it and go in a different direction. You know, the number one rule of conversation is don’t be boring. And the number two rule of conversation is, you know, listen. Because if you just listen and get out, you know, if get out of our heads and listen to people, you know, they’ll tell us where the conversation should go because it’s, it’s a It’s a bilateral act. It’s something we do together. It’s not something, we don’t want to be where interrogate somebody. We don’t want to be where we’re lecturing somebody or just doing a monologue either. We want it to be interactive. We want it be two people giving roughly equally 50 % of the conversation. That’s when it’s good. When people voluntarily give information, that’s one of reasons I tell people to make more statements and ask fewer questions, generally speaking. Because you want to make a statement that invites and allows the other person to come in and join you in the conversation. It helps them. But a question has forced. A question is like a demand for information. So anytime you can change a question into more of a statement, it’s usually better because it’s not as demanding. That’s just some of the highlights.

Michael Scott Eger: So, one of the things that a lot of people have anxiety on and then they go and so they have anxiety then they go to the bar and they get the drink and then they start talking sloppy because they drink too much because they had so much anxiety. I guess what I’m trying to lead into is how do you use these skills? How do you take advantage of your conversational toolkit to better talk to strangers. ⁓

Wayne Elise: That’s a pretty wide question. I would you know it just to go back to your bar scenario Drinking and getting sluggish on probably isn’t a good idea One drink is usually enough for me. I drew that for most of time I don’t even drink when I meet people but you know if I’m at a social thing I might have a glass of wine Usually end up sharing a glass wife my wife actually, ⁓ you know, it helps lubricate Socially, I think that is true. I don’t think people should rely on alcohol to be social. Because if you do that, then you’re not really living up to your full potential in life. But realistically, some people are going to have a drink, they’re going to be a little more social. I think that’s fine. ⁓ I’m not too dogmatic about that. I’m pragmatist. going out, ⁓ thinking about how do you help people. A good introduction, for instance, going to a bar. ⁓ If I meet somebody, oftentimes I’ll say to them, hey, let’s go meet, let’s go have an adventure, meet some other people. And then I’ll spend the rest of the night introducing my new friend to people. A good introduction is very, people don’t really do good introductions anymore. Good introduction is like, this is my friend, Mike. He has a website all about being healthy and he’s from Boston, believe.

Michael Scott Eger: I’m from Springfield, Mass. But Boston’s good enough for you on the West Coast.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, he’s a Red Sox fan, I imagine. And, you know, I like to give people a good intro is very rare, you know, but a lot of people go to parties, think, oh, I’m socially awkward. They never think about helping somebody else, but they should because that’s a great way to be social.

Michael Scott Eger: Yep. And it helps your karma too.

Wayne Elise: Sure, yeah, it does. It somebody else look good, you know? Take two people and say, this is my friend Mike, and help the conversation. Help them, these two people have a good conversation. It all comes back to you. It is karmic. The whole party is karmic. It’s a karmic party.

Michael Scott Eger: Well, I use that language because a lot of people that are in this community understand that term. We all have our constructs that try to explain the intangibles and that’s one that’s very popular.

Wayne Elise: good word. I like it. No, no, it’s your turn. I believe have a clicker here with the terms on it and says it’s your turn.

Michael Scott Eger: Go ahead. Okay. Really? Why are we playing chess?

Wayne Elise: I’ve been keeping track. Yeah, I got a chess clock here.

Michael Scott Eger: Wow. Are you serious?

Wayne Elise: No, I’m joking. I’m just using my imagination. I like to use my imagination a lot.

Michael Scott Eger: You would be the most professional interview subject I ever met having that chest clobbing.

Wayne Elise: That would be pretty embarrassing.

Michael Scott Eger: I’ve seen weirder. You know me. I’m probably weirder than that.

Wayne Elise: Did you ever play chess when you were younger or still play now?

Michael Scott Eger: Yeah, I wasn’t competitive when I was a child. What really happened was, so you know I was a sick kid as child, it took a while for me to be well enough to actually play with the regular kids. So that was until my mid-teens and ever since I’ve been playing catch-up. So I tend to be much more intellectual than most because it’s just one way I could be on the same level as the other kids.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Michael Scott Eger: It’s amazing though, whether it was hang out with you in New York and DC and a few other places just to decide I wanted to be a better speaker. The same thing happened when I was a child. We decided we want me to be healthier and we had the actions that were consistent with that. everything I learned from you. To this day I’m working, working to perfect it, to apply it to everyday life and integrate it with everything else I learned.

Wayne Elise: Well, that’s good. I think you’re still on the same path then.

Michael Scott Eger: I guess the thing is you trying to help other people. like you said, Erica is a great cook, right?

Wayne Elise: Cheers, yeah, she’s a great cook.

Michael Scott Eger: So Erica’s a good cook. Tell us some of the dishes she makes for you.

Wayne Elise: Oh man, she makes her own pizza. Okay. You know, and she makes it from scratch. She makes the dough. I can’t think of the type of dough off the top of my head, but she makes special dough and it’s thick and it’s very good. mean, she’ll make it. She eats such a wide variety of dishes. makes a vegan mac and cheese. She makes a great vegan mac and cheese. You know, we don’t eat a lot of meat. Actually, I don’t eat any red meat. We eat some fish and chicken, pretty much low sugar stuff. She’ll take a recipe and then she’ll work it so there’s less sugar in it. She’s always making healthy versions of food. And she’s Mexican. think cooking is in her DNA. think she grew up watching good cooks. And she has the ability, she can smell way better and taste way better than a normal person. And I keep telling her she… She should be a professional chef. She’s teaching Pilates right now, but she should be a chef because she can smell it. She’ll go, she’ll say, smell that. And I’ll go, I don’t smell anything. She’s like, ⁓ that’s, you know, she’ll give me the whole thing. That’s a little oregano, a little thyme. She’ll know everything. know, tasting stuff. She can taste ingredients and, you know, she, she, she uses a lot of herbs in her cooking, which I think helps a lot because a lot of people substitute fat and sugar. to make something tasty. You can kind of make things tasty by just adding fat and sugar. By using herbs and spices, you can make it tasty without having to rely on fat and sugar. So she’s such a good cook, but a healthy cook. Although we splurge, she bakes sort of healthy versions of cookies and things. It’s not like we, to me it feels as if we eat a lot, but the reality is compared to most people, we don’t. But you know, we’re both healthy people. And I think that’s important choosing a ⁓ spouse or somebody to be in relationship is to teach is to choose someone who also wants to live a healthy lifestyle. You know, she she likes working out, she likes eating well, she’s concerned about her health. And then I do. Lately, we’ve been doing this thing where we because we live in the hills, the bottom of the hills in Los Angeles. So run up, up this hill into the park and then we play frisbee. Then we run back home. That’s my favorite thing. Yeah, but you got to marry a cook. That’s the secret, man. Or learn to cook yourself. That’s a good, that’s probably even better. I’m not allowed in the kitchen, by the way. I’m just, I do the dishes.

Michael Scott Eger: The contrast from your ex-wife to your current wife, you are so different. And it just proves the point that if you’re with someone that’s right for you, that allows you to be harmonious with who you want to be, that’s huge. That releases so much stress, that gives you so much freedom to be human and ⁓ less perfect because they accept you for who you are.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, I think that’s true,

Michael Scott Eger: And I’m so glad you met her.

Wayne Elise: Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. That’s nice of you to say, although I would also add that I had to change other things to my lifestyle. At the time, after my divorce, I made a lot of changes in my lifestyle as well. I decided not to work as much and travel as much. I just cut back a lot of things because I wanted to have more of a personal life and be able to exercise and all those other things as well.

Michael Scott Eger: What’s your favorite exercise?

Wayne Elise: exercise, probably hiking, urban hiking. I hike up into the neighborhood every morning almost on going to walk or run or hike. Just even walking, would say, what? Let’s just say walking. I’ll get up and I’ll take a 45-minute walk in the morning. It’s just nice. It doesn’t have to be super intense. Just moving your body somewhat, I think, helps a lot.

Michael Scott Eger: Okay.

Wayne Elise: And then usually I’ll do something in the morning and then later we’ll go to the gym. We belong to the YMCA here, the Hollywood YMCA. You’ll see celebrities at the YMCA.

Michael Scott Eger: You know, the thing about walking, when it comes down to it, sometimes the most basic movements are the best exercise. When you walk, not only are you moving and you’re activating your whole core, but you’re balancing. Walking is really just control falling. And that’s what makes it so efficient. But also what makes it so good for brain health still.

Wayne Elise: I don’t know, I control falling. That’s a funny way of thinking about it. There’s probably some other things that we do. It’s kind of like control falling.

Michael Scott Eger: I’m sure we can think of a few. Any off the top of your head?

Wayne Elise: getting married and being in a marriage, being in a relationship, that’s kind of control falling.

Michael Scott Eger: You’re taking educated guess then. When you make that life commitment. That this person is that important. That’s true. Because you feel so strongly for them, you’re willing to make a long standing commitment to them. Most people, they think short term.

Wayne Elise: Yeah That’s true, yeah. It’s hard to think long term. I don’t know if I really have ever really thought really long term myself. I almost think you gotta think short term to be deluded enough to get married. And I don’t mean that in the first, it sounds like cynical, but it is true, yeah.

Michael Scott Eger: It’s actually true. You’re so intense in your feelings and all you’re thinking about is what you want to do next morning.

Wayne Elise: you’re thinking about, just can’t live without this person. But feelings change and sometimes even when you’re married, your level of love fluctuates and how you feel about your spouse, I think fluctuates. And I think that’s not a bad thing, that’s just kind of how it is. But I think that our biology makes us make these commitments that I don’t think we ever could possibly think all the way through. thinking about as I get older things start to diminish and I gotta go get a prostate check up all this stuff. Erica says, well you know what I’m talking about, yeah, Erica was much younger than I, know, she was a decade younger than I. She says to me, I didn’t think about this when I married you. I’m gonna have to go through all this with you. I’m like, yeah, well you signed a contract too late.

Michael Scott Eger: It’s time for my first Conan Nautly. If I can experience it and it helps me help other people deal with it, I might as well volunteer for the treatment.

Wayne Elise: I think so, yeah.

Michael Scott Eger: So some professionals go and put a tube up my butt. Yay! Joy! I’m going, accept it, but I don’t have to enjoy it. So, let me ask you something. I’ve been controlling the conversation and I know you have so much you want to say. Where do you want, if I gave you the option, where would you take this conversation?

Wayne Elise: should like a That’s a good question. I like that question. That’s a good question. I don’t know if I have any answer. I might see that question. I don’t know. I’m curious about you actually. I wonder what has been going on in your life because I haven’t seen you for a while. I you’re doing this and know what’s your, what’s your, I’m curious about like where this is going for you. know, what’s your, have any goals?

Michael Scott Eger: Write it down, you can borrow it.

Wayne Elise: with your health business and your health coaching.

Michael Scott Eger: That’s a good question. This podcast is a great excuse to talk with doctors and coaches and mentors that tell health stories and stories that would just never information I just would never get without this platform. Stories I would never tell or never know about without this platform. Since we first met you, I believe the first time we met was 2007 and 2008. Around that time

Wayne Elise: That’s alright, I think that sounds about right.

Michael Scott Eger: I was nearly 200 pounds back then, so I lost 67 pounds.

Wayne Elise: I’m seeing these pictures on Facebook. Wow, what happens to rest of them?

Michael Scott Eger: I know when I see your new photos, I’m like you’re aging in reverse way Isn’t that so great you mean you you accept that healthy lifestyle and that can instantly take seven years off of you

Wayne Elise: And losing weight and being thinner definitely makes you feel younger and probably look younger too. Although I’m probably putting the best pictures of myself on Facebook. need to some realistic pictures when I wake up in the morning.

Michael Scott Eger: We all do. You just overshadowed me. I forgot what I was gonna say.

Wayne Elise: about what your goals were with the health coach thing.

Michael Scott Eger: Yeah, so before we met, I had a car crash show that had to affect my memory a little bit. Yes. So I have this platform to talk, but I picked up salsa dancing. I started to ⁓ public speak more salsa dancing and public speaking are two things I’m deeply, deeply afraid of any dancing, any speaking. It gave me such anxiety that It affected me physically to the point I shook. when I before I came to you and we met my co-workers called me Twitch. Because I was a nervous guy that just couldn’t stay still. And then I started to learn to connect with people and started to learn to talk to them. And when I realized that less I’m worried about me. and more concerned about other people, it puts them at ease. So that was huge. That’s a huge life lesson. And when you realize people are more concerned about themselves than you, I mean, you want to look good. You don’t have to worry about, well, is the shirt untucked? Is my posture right? How bad is my stuttering? I used to really worry about and in fact for many years,

Wayne Elise: Yeah.

Michael Scott Eger: I had a remorse anxiety from some of the things I said in the past. I’d done landmark education. That’s huge. If you ever want to do that, any place in the world, I will fly there and take the class with you. It’s that cool. Because I would take that class again and You’re sitting in a room, I did my forum in Manhattan, then I flew out and hanged out with your boy Dan. You remember Dan, right?

Wayne Elise: You’re talking about Dan that used to work for me?

Michael Scott Eger: Danny used to work with you. So I went and did Landmark out in Denver so I could hang out with him and that was kind of cool because I haven’t seen him since he flew out to Massachusetts.

Wayne Elise: seen him in years to tell you the truth. He is a great person. really like him.

Michael Scott Eger: Really is. Of course, when we last met, we both had eyes on the same girl and that kind of made things awkward. But I think we both egged each other on and I want to take this opportunity of Dan is listening. I’m sorry, buddy. I hope we’re cool. And assuming you’re still living in the same place in Golden, there’s a package coming for you. So that’s one thing. I’m incomplete with your friend, Dan. And so, last time we met, I promised to send him stuff and then life happened and then I got distracted. And I just never did it. And it’s been a few years. And, you know, now that I’m starting to realize the power of my word and my word is shaping my life and the commitment I make with my words are making things happen, I’m trying to make sure that I’m complete in everything I promise. So that’s one thing I promise and after this conversation, I will make an effort to make that complete.

Wayne Elise: I like that, I like how you think about that.

Michael Scott Eger: So landmark education, that was pretty cool because landmark, and landmark is not something I sell, it’s not something I make money off, but it’s just so profound way of thinking because it’s all about the power of the words. And in the forum, they really start to focus on how you can separate the emotional narrative you make about actions from what happened. With all those words comes a fear, remorse, hatred, sadness, all that stuff. And all it was was a learning experience and it just happened. And then the advanced class starts to make you normal.

Wayne Elise: I’ll have to look into it, know, it’s kind of similar philosophy probably. Sounds interesting. You know, I do think that often maybe this relates to what you’re saying. You know, oftentimes, you know, what happens in life is not what really hurts us. It’s all the inner dialogue that happens afterwards. Where we tell ourselves, wasn’t that awful? And aren’t I a bad person? Or aren’t I, you powerless? Often that’s what hurts us. It’s a good idea, think, generally to get in the habit of interrupting those thoughts, trying to know that pathway and not go down it in a sense. When I got divorced, kind of similar thing, when I got divorced, found out I was getting divorced. My wife at the time, my first wife, she said, I want to get a divorce. And she said, I’m in love with somebody else. And I was devastated, man. I begged her not to divorce me. But after we kind of knew we were going to definitely get a divorce, my parents, they said to me, you should not give her any money. You should fight. You should hate her. You know, they hated her. Her parents were saying very similar things, you know, get as much as you can out of them. And, uh, and I went to, I asked my, my good friend, uh, Jeff in San Francisco, who also was a client years ago, he’s become a good friend. I said to him, went through a divorce, you know, what was it like? And he said to me, well, try not to fight, be willing to be more generous and give up more in the first place. Don’t be like me, he said, because he had spent like $400,000 on his divorce attorney. He just paid his divorce attorney, the bill, his attorney was $400,000. He had spent so much time and not just, or so much money, but not just money, but time and emotional energy fighting this long fight with his ex-wife. And he regretted the whole thing, said. If I would have just given her more money, if I would have been more generous, if I would have just more generous with the kids and the income in the first place, I’d be a happier person today and I’d be further along in my life. So I took that advice and I said to my wife at the time, said, we’re getting a divorce, let’s not fight about this. Whatever you want, just let me know, we’ll work it out. We ended up being cool about it. And even though part of me wanted to fight and be mad, the other part of me said, you know what, it’s going to be better for my emotional health to just get on with my life. Get on with my life as quickly as I can and not fight anymore no matter what. And I’m glad I made that choice, you know, because we, you know, we were amicable. We didn’t even use a lawyer, you know, we did all ourselves. I would say she’s a friend to this day. haven’t seen her in while, but, but in the emotions I had, I was a much better place. You know, I was able to start dating sooner. I was able to move on, you know, and I know guys who are divorced. We’ve had bad things happen to them. know, people have had bad things happen in their childhood. They’re still hung up on it. And I think a lot of that is because we choose to fight and to have bad feelings about it. And it’s almost like we self talk ourselves into, ⁓ isn’t this awful? Isn’t this other person awful? Instead of just kind of letting things go a little quicker. Does any advice I always give people who are going through something, tell them my experience. They know they don’t have to fight. I can choose a different way. Sometimes the best thing is just say, you know what, I forgive you. It’s okay. Being magnanimous and just forgiving people for being human a lot of times is the best, best choice.

Michael Scott Eger: That’s so cool. You know, another thing is it comes down to your mindset. If you come down to the, have to fight because I only have limited resources. Well, you behave like you only have limited resources. But if you have the mindset, I want to move on and I got plenty. You behave more congruent, more in line with that. And that’s huge. And I’m just trying to think of anything else I should add to what I’ve been doing besides the podcast and I’m sure there’s things I forgot. The point is ever since I discovered Napoleon Hill’s Outward in the Devil I really have been fitting a lot of mentoring into a coherent philosophy. Everything from my face life to landmark, to what you taught me, to what my friends and family taught me, to it’s all fitting together. And even the health and wellness advice. It’s such a profound book. And I recommend you read it if you haven’t had a chance. I’m starting to write about it more and more. And so we’re coming to the end of our hour. I want to be sensitive with your time. I know you’re a busy man. Do you have any actionable advice for people in everyday life?

Wayne Elise: Well, that’s a good question. You know, I teach conversation skills. I teach people how to connect better with people. The best thing I could say is get out and talk to other people. Get out and talk to somebody who’s not like you. Because just getting a different perspective on life, I think, is important. And getting out of our bubbles, I think, is important. These days, it’s easy to be in our bubbles because we’re all on our phones. I’m guilty. Everybody does this. I walk down the street with my iPhone, looking at my phone. But we got to make a concerted effort these days to get out of ourselves and then go out and talk to people you’ve never talked to before. Go to someplace new that you’ve never gone to. We’re going roller skating tonight actually. It’s kind of fun here. Can I go roller skating? Never been in… Old school roller skating. I haven’t done this in years. And I’m looking forward to it. I’m sure we’ll end up talking to some people, some strangers there.

Michael Scott Eger: In line or no

Wayne Elise: Talking with people you’ve never talked to before, being willing to talk to strangers and go outside of ourselves, it’s a kind of a scary thing, but whenever we do it, I think everyone here has done it, it always feels exciting. And I think that we need that excitement in our lives to make us feel whole, to make us feel healthy. You know, I always tell people it’s not an adventure unless you’re strangers involved. And sometimes, like if you’re in a relationship, sometimes it’s easy just to hang out with each other and not get out and do things. You really gotta make an effort. So if there’s one thing I’d like to leave your listeners with, guess, is go out and make some new friends. Talk to some people that you wouldn’t otherwise chat with. And you’ll learn something for sure.

Michael Scott Eger: So would you like to say anything specific to introverse or extroverse or would you like to go start the closing?

Wayne Elise: we can start to closing us. I’m not sure if I know what those things are you’re just talking about. Introverts, introverted people.

Michael Scott Eger: Introverted, extroverted. I think I’m quietly extroverted and I don’t, I think you’re more on introverted side. sometimes you occur different to me.

Wayne Elise: I’m you think I’m pretty much in the middle. People always say, you extrovert or introvert? I’m pretty much in the middle. I have moments I like to be outgoing and moments I like to be quiet. I wouldn’t put myself in an introverted camp, a conventional introverted camp at all. The thing is, a lot of people, I don’t really buy into the introverted, extroverted thing too much, because I’ve had so many clients, thousands of clients through the years, I’ve taught conversation skills and I’ve taken them out, talked to strangers and meet girls. I don’t really believe in introvert-extrovert because I’ve seen it. Sometimes it’s a manifestation of the same thing. So there are people who very shy. Sometimes those people, we don’t say shy, but they’re very maybe uncomfortable with themselves. They’re looking for approval. Sometimes those people are very quiet and they become more like introverts and sometimes they’re very extroverted. But it’s kind of the same thing. Sometimes your extroversion is such to an extent they don’t, they’re not comfortable with silence. And so they’re just trying to fill this void by talking a lot. And it’s kind of this, it’s, know, it’s like a coin. It’s the other side of the same coin. People who are uncomfortable with themselves sometimes become introverted, sometimes become extroverted because they’re not comfortable with that silence. It’s really the same thing. I don’t, I don’t really try to put people into the introverted extroverted thing. I just, I just take them for how they are. And I think that, ⁓ you know, I’m not a big on classifying people, putting them in the categories. I like to just, I like to play the person, interact with the person for just who they are, you know, and try to find out what that is. That’s my thoughts on it.

Michael Scott Eger: So if someone wanted to work with you learn more about what you teach and yeah, and become a better speaker ⁓

Wayne Elise: will have to define me by coming and talking to me. Let’s see. ⁓ I’m in some place here. I’m in Los Angeles currently. But yeah, they can go to chrismarts.com and check out, you know, I blog and I write stuff and then they can sign up for a camp or a phone coaching. I have an ebook, it’s kind of hard to find, but it’s not really on the site.

Michael Scott Eger: Okay, did I eat pork lately?

Wayne Elise: I have it now. It looks pretty old.

Michael Scott Eger: Yeah, think the version I have is from 07.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, that’s about it. No, it hasn’t really changed. I keep telling people I’m going to write another book and eventually I will. But yeah, How to Meet and Connect with Women, I still got that book out there and people find it and buy it to this day. I’m still seeing them enjoy it. But if people want to come to a conversation camp, you know, I do those pretty much all over New York, LA, London, Chicago sometimes.

Michael Scott Eger: Yeah. It’s like a page for vacation.

Wayne Elise: Yeah, although I really hasn’t to go to Chicago, any place where it’s cold. But New York is the next one coming up. I think next month.

Michael Scott Eger: ⁓ CharismaArts.com,

Wayne Elise: Yep, that’s it. There’s also a forum on there, by the way. Yeah, we had a forum for years. It was popular. Then I took it off because it got to be too complicated to worry about the spam and all this stuff. But, know, it’s a little easier now because you can just hire services that do all that. So, yeah, we put about a forum back up and people can certainly write questions to myself or just to the community, Prism Arts community.

Michael Scott Eger: TORS BACK ON! So where’s the address in the form?

Wayne Elise: Just go to chrismores.com, there’s a link at the top of page.

Michael Scott Eger: I’m going to rejoin that because I missed that feature of your site. Yeah

Wayne Elise: Yeah, yeah, it was great. Okay. thank you, Mike. I really appreciate being able to talk to you.

Michael Scott Eger: No problem. And if you would to show and you like what Wayne has to say, please find us on iTunes and rate us five stars. This will allow the message to reach more people and hopefully help someone that you might not have never met. And with great gratitude and love, I cherish your friendship and I’m glad we met Wayne.

Wayne Elise: Thank you.

Michael Scott Eger: you